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  #61  
Old 08-19-2007, 04:00 PM
Wandering_Dan Wandering_Dan is offline
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Default Re: Are You sure that Turkey is located in the Middle East?

Location is determined by geography, not by politics. While there is considerable disagreement about the overall boundary between Europe and Asia, there is no disagreement on one part: The Bosporus and Dardenelles are the boundary, and this goes back to the Greeks if not before.

And almost all of Turkey is on the Asian side of that boundary, so Turkey is geographically part of Asia. Its application to the European Union, even if accepted, is irrelevant.

Asia also gets subdivided into mutliple parts, whose names and boundaries are even more fluid the Eurasian one. And because of historical connotations and shifts, culture and history are factors in determining membership in these subgroups. Turkey, in the incarnation of the Ottoman Empire, was THE major cultural influence on the region we generally identify as the "Middle East" for 500 years. Furthermore, if Israel, Lebanon and Syria, all of which are further into Asia than Turkey, can be grouped into the "Middle East," then Turkey should be grouped with them as well.

You could call the region "SW Asia" instead, but at that point you are including everything from Yemen to Afghanistan (by some counts), and that makes it even trickier. Leave it as it is.
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  #62  
Old 08-19-2007, 04:15 PM
maria maria is offline
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Default Re: Are You sure that Turkey is located in the Middle East?

WOW, this is one of the funniest threads I've even read!
All due to your lack of information and knowledge of the issue.
Simply get yourself informed ....
Regards,
Maria
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  #63  
Old 08-19-2007, 04:23 PM
Wandering_Dan Wandering_Dan is offline
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Default Re: Are You sure that Turkey is located in the Middle East?

Perhaps you could inform us then? What did we (or they) miss?
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  #64  
Old 08-19-2007, 05:15 PM
maria maria is offline
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Default Re: Are You sure that Turkey is located in the Middle East?

I drew his attention so that he can get informed. It's not that difficult....
He made a statement that was funny enough for me..... the geographical one does not go with the political. But it was more to do with his demands... That was everything.
I am a Historian specialised in the Greek World and the Roman Empire and work as a diplomat for one EU agency and I can confirm that Turkey is in the middle east.
I believe Posseidon is a big boy, capable enough of doing a bit of home work.
Regards,
Maria
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  #65  
Old 08-19-2007, 05:20 PM
iamback iamback is offline
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Default Re: Are You sure that Turkey is located in the Middle East?

Whose Middle East, Maria? Are you not aware (or "informed" that there are no fixed borders for what is called the "middle East"? What makes you think your definition of its "borders" is any better than any other?

Frankly, that seems a rather curious attitude for a historian (who should be able to do her homework, too).

Marjolein
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  #66  
Old 08-19-2007, 05:28 PM
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xuaxo xuaxo is offline
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Default And Russia? And Vatican City?

As Mike says, follow the UN categorizations (<a href="http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49regin.htm" target=_blank>http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49regin.htm</a>) would be a very reasonable solution, or even the best.
If geography was the only criterion (bigger landmass: Turkey - Middle East; Russia - Asia), then Denmark should be in North America, owing to the bigger landmass of Greenland. If Denmark in America seems odd, the same applies to Russia in Asia. Most of population and the political center of Denmark is in Europe; a dependency (larger but with less population) is in North America. The same rationale should apply to Russia: most of population and political center of Russia is in Europe; some dependencies (colonized a couple of centuries ago; larger but with less population) is in Asia.
We can discuss Turkey, Cyprus, the Caucasus nations, etc, to be in Asia or Europe, or Middle East. But, ask anybody where Russia is!
Russia in Asia only adds trouble when one try to find it on TE.
Indeed, the best is to follow the neutral UN criteria, including about the Vatican City (Holy See) separated from Italy.
Regards, Francisco
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  #67  
Old 08-19-2007, 05:42 PM
Wandering_Dan Wandering_Dan is offline
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Default Re: And Russia? And Vatican City?

You can't compare Russia to Denmark (though it's an interesting idea). Greenland is a colony of Denmark and, more importantly, physically separated from it by a substantial distance (I'm too lazy to look it up right now). Russia, on the other hand, is a single contiguous mass stretching from the Black and Baltic Seas (clearly Europe) to the Pacific (clearly Asia). In fact, the dividing line between Europe and Asia in Russia is still an open question; most geographers do put it in the Urals, but I've seen an argument, based on flora and fauna, that it should 1000 miles east of there - the Ob-Yenisey rivers.

In fact, I would consider an argument that divides Russia into European and Asian sections, given that western Russia (Moscow, St. Petersburg, Novgorod) show heavy European cultural influence, partly the result of Peter the Great's deliberate plan to "Europeanize" Russia to make up for 300 years of Mongol occupation and influence. Also, the Great Russians are European in facial signs and in character. But Siberia is Asian and shows the Asian influence. Photos taken in European Russia could never (well, rarely, given the heavy Soviet impact) be mistaken for an Asian scene, and vice versa. Do we measure by population? By the location of the capital? Sometimes I'm inclined to put Russia in a category by itself.

Turkey is even more complex for this argument, because the European part of it is physically separate, but the separation is so minimal that it can, literally, be bridged. At what point does separation become significnt? Certainly somewhere more than Turkey's and less than Denmark's.

As for the Middle East, it occurs to me that this is really a term standing on its own, and can - why not? - encompass parts of both Europe and Asia. Africa, too: Egypt looks to the east, not west, for its influences and sphere of influence (occasional forays into the Sudan notwithstanding).
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  #68  
Old 08-19-2007, 06:32 PM
kinginexile kinginexile is offline
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Default Re: Are You sure that Turkey is located in the Middle East?

Thanks for your supplement of information, Maria... :-))))
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  #69  
Old 08-19-2007, 06:35 PM
erhanterzi erhanterzi is offline
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Default Middle East?

The word ''Middle East'', as far as I know, was first used by British map makers( politicians who drew straight lines to divide regions in the area). So they managed to give a start to CHAOS in the area.

I have read all the messages from 2004 till today, no one can be satisfied with this argument.

The problem with this is Turkiye is in the most interesting geographical part(s) in the world when looking at the world map

Untill 3 months ago, all believed Pluto was a planet, what about today? Things change. Let's say Turkiye, will be the part of Europe in 10 -15 years. Where will then it located or be classified, still Middle East?
Regards to all
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  #70  
Old 08-19-2007, 07:35 PM
kinginexile kinginexile is offline
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Default Re: Middle East?

Let's remember the focus of the thread was merely about the location of Turkey on TE. The basis of Adam's decision is not british politics, and since there are only continents to choose from, there was no Middle east choice possible.

Gee, now we have a (nice) diplomat involved. Where is this going to take us. I am calling my lawyer... :-)))))
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